That was just an example above for future reference.
Best answer by DanP
View originalManually choosing block in System Control
If I install a peice of PUA that is undetected by WSA and set to monitor, couldn't I therorectically choose 'block' to revert the changes of this PUA? If so, this would seem to be a much easier and more thorough way of uninstalling unwanted software (if done right of course).
That was just an example above for future reference.
That was just an example above for future reference.
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Userlevel 7
Personlly, as rare as it is needed to do a Rollback, and as technical as I believe it might be, I think it best to leave it to Support. It is not so simple as simply clicking a button and letting it go.
Userlevel 7
+35
Manually setting a file to Monitor would cause the file to be monitored and journaled from the point that the file was set to monitor. Only changes made by that file after it was set to monitor would be journaled and be able to be rolled back.
Monitoring will limit program access. There are several different levels of monitoring that are based on the behavior of the file, so in the case of a file manually set to monitor this would be limited to the behavior of the file after being set to monitor.
-Dan
Userlevel 7
+56
David & Solly if you look at this video: https://community.webroot.com/t5/Webroot-Education/What-Happens-if-Webroot-quot-Misses-quot-a-Virus/ta-p/10202 Monitoring only starts when the file is Executed and able to rollback at the point of Execution which allows the EXE file there right? Now the same you set a process to monitored then it starts watching what the process is doing then when you set it to block it rollsback to the time of the Monitoering started so in most cases like Dan & Roy said there are many levels of monitering! I'm going to quote Roy from a post he posted at Wilders!
"No you can add process to the Identity Shield if you so wish. I dont have the list of native apps that automatically handy at the moment. Any executed process that is unknown in our database will be journalled. If its determined that its bad its changes will be rolled back. This as I said earlier is only one component of our program.
For instance on my PC here, a new version of this application was released recently and its a new .EXE
Monitoring process E:gamesSteamsteamappscommonWar Thunderaces.exe [B2771208D7A3ABD19ADF7F1A7E797AB7]
The client is keeping an eye on what its doing. If it starts doing things that the client determines is bad (behaviour based) it can locally block it too in which case you may see:
Blocked process from accessing protected data C:
oymalwarevaultwebinstallerjd1.exe [Type: 11]"
Now from my scan log:
Fri 17-10-2014 21:38:23.0834 Monitoring process C:Program FilesVoodooShieldVoodooShieldService.exe [3504C7F055D5E2359F7888478AC74BB7]. Type: 3 (3479)
Fri 17-10-2014 21:38:23.0834 Monitoring process C:Program FilesVoodooShieldVoodooShieldService.exe [3504C7F055D5E2359F7888478AC74BB7]. Type: 4 (3479)
Fri 17-10-2014 21:38:23.0834 Monitoring process C:Program FilesVoodooShieldVoodooShieldService.exe [3504C7F055D5E2359F7888478AC74BB7]. Type: 6 (3479)
Fri 17-10-2014 21:38:23.0850 Monitoring process C:Program FilesVoodooShieldVoodooShield.exe [3F527670FE1BFE85E4F00F7183FFEFBE]. Type: 3 (3478)
Fri 17-10-2014 21:38:23.0850 Monitoring process C:Program FilesVoodooShieldVoodooShield.exe [3F527670FE1BFE85E4F00F7183FFEFBE]. Type: 4 (3478)
Fri 17-10-2014 21:38:23.0850 Monitoring process C:Program FilesVoodooShieldVoodooShield.exe [3F527670FE1BFE85E4F00F7183FFEFBE]. Type: 6 (3478)
See the different levels and even Roy showed Level 11 so it would depend on like they said already the Behaviour is taken into account from the Cloud. I don't think they are willing to explain the many levels in public as we don't want to give the malware writers any inside info!
I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say without saying more?
Daniel
Userlevel 7
+56
Yes and I Agreed I don't even play with it, but only to set to Allow from Monitored when I know it's a safe Program and processes from an updated program and most times I contact support to get them Whitelisted and of courses if it's not good there are not going to Whitelist it they will mark it Bad and WSA will remove it. LOL
Daniel 😉
Daniel 😉
Userlevel 7
+35
@ wrote:
Setting to block does initiate a roll back. In a previous reply, I tested the rollback with a not well known application called Focus Writer (simple word type program). I made a doc on the desktop from Focus Writer, set the process to block, and my file dissappeared due to the rollback procedure.
I guess my question is now:Journalling should start when an Unknown process enters memory and is Monitored.
When does the journaling start?
Ex: I install a PUA app. Its gets auto set to Monitor. Does journaling start after the installation or before?
If it is before, then the above test I did didn't work because the rollback procedure did not delete the installation files of Foucs Writer, only the changes the program did after installation.
Thanks!
Only the changes made by the monitored process will be journalled, so only those changes would be rolled back.
Using what you saw with Focus Writer as an example, journalling and rollback worked as would be expected. The Monitored file was the Focus Writer application file, which created the document, so the change of the created document was rolled back. Since that process did not create the installation files, those files would not be deleted.
If you wanted to remove the installation files, you would need to go to Manual Threat Removal, and select the installation file for Focus Writer. If the installer was monitored and journalled, the changes made by the installer would rolled back.
-Dan
Userlevel 7
Hello there,
Changing the setting to Block will not cause the PUA to be removed, quarantined, nor will it trigger a rollback to restore any changes made by the PUA. The Rollback really can only be done, as far as I know, under supervision of Webroot Support.
It WILL keep the PUA from running or doing anything further, but it is not a 'good' replacement for proper PUA management (Uninstalling the garbage or stopping it from installing in the first place.)
Changing the setting to Block will not cause the PUA to be removed, quarantined, nor will it trigger a rollback to restore any changes made by the PUA. The Rollback really can only be done, as far as I know, under supervision of Webroot Support.
It WILL keep the PUA from running or doing anything further, but it is not a 'good' replacement for proper PUA management (Uninstalling the garbage or stopping it from installing in the first place.)
Userlevel 7
Hi David
If I may on this one, based on my understanding...what you say is essentially correct.
But the rollback feature is only available for files set to 'Monitor', but even then a file can either be set to 'Monitor' automatically by WSA based on it being unknown or manually by the user. In either case the 'Monitor' status will cause its activities to be journalled...however, in terms of rollback based on the journalling , only when a file that has been set to 'Monitor' is deemed to be malicious will WSA rollback its activities.
In the case of the user set 'Monitor' statis even ifthe file is deemed to be malicious by WSA (unlikely to happen as WSA would most probably have spotted that before the user intervention) or the user chnages the status for 'Monitor' to 'Block' no rollback will occur. Whether or not the Support Team canuse the manually initiated journalling by the user is a moot point...and I suggest that it is worth asking someone like Roy or Dan to comment/advise on this point for us all.@ @
Regards, Baldrick
If I may on this one, based on my understanding...what you say is essentially correct.
But the rollback feature is only available for files set to 'Monitor', but even then a file can either be set to 'Monitor' automatically by WSA based on it being unknown or manually by the user. In either case the 'Monitor' status will cause its activities to be journalled...however, in terms of rollback based on the journalling , only when a file that has been set to 'Monitor' is deemed to be malicious will WSA rollback its activities.
In the case of the user set 'Monitor' statis even ifthe file is deemed to be malicious by WSA (unlikely to happen as WSA would most probably have spotted that before the user intervention) or the user chnages the status for 'Monitor' to 'Block' no rollback will occur. Whether or not the Support Team canuse the manually initiated journalling by the user is a moot point...and I suggest that it is worth asking someone like Roy or Dan to comment/advise on this point for us all.
Regards, Baldrick
Userlevel 7
Hi David, my pleasure but I will feel better as and when either Roy and/or Dan comeback to confirm or precise further, as my post is based on some recollections of conversations that occured a while back...and I am no spring chicken so the memory may be playing tricks on me.
Regards, Baldrick
Regards, Baldrick
Userlevel 7
+56
Another thing about this if the PUA came as a Bundle the Rollback might remove to the point of the installation of the program. And can go along the lines of this short video: https://community.webroot.com/t5/Webroot-Education/What-Happens-if-Webroot-quot-Misses-quot-a-Virus/ta-p/10202 but it would be nice to hear from some Webroot Threat Researchers on this or even the Developer of that feature? @ will know who!
Thanks,
Daniel 😉
Thanks,
Daniel 😉
Userlevel 7
+56
Agreed!@ wrote:
Personally, as rare as it is needed to do a Rollback, and as technical as I believe it might be, I think it best to leave it to Support. It is not so simple as simply clicking a button and letting it go.
Daniel 😉
Userlevel 7
As soon as you set a file to block and close the window a scan Window will pop-up and the file will be removed. Another scan will then start to verify that its been removed. We only recommend that advanced users use this screen as you can cause all sorts of trouble if you start adding windows files to block.
I have seen it many a times where a user has googled "SVCHost" and seen somebody has said its a virus and to remove it. Yes its a common spoofed filename but its a legimate windows file!
I have seen it many a times where a user has googled "SVCHost" and seen somebody has said its a virus and to remove it. Yes its a common spoofed filename but its a legimate windows file!
Userlevel 7
+35
@ wrote:
At that point the file would be determined Bad on the local machine, and the active process would be terminated. On a scan the cleanup/rollback process would start and any changes made by that file after it was set to monitor would be rolled back along with the generic cleanup routine.@ In the event that the user changes the status from Monitor to Block, what would happen at that point?
Thanks :)
-Dan
Userlevel 7
Hi Daniel, thanks...but this I know other than the last part and I am sure that I have seen a thread in which it was stated that WSA setting something to Monitor and a user doing that does not have the same end result in terms of the rollback...hence why Webroot do not recommend (at least as I understand it, but perhaps incorrectly) that users set files to Monitor.
@ Roy...I think that it was in one of your post in a thread a good few months ago where I thought this was said...can you by any chance recall this and advise as to whether what I am saying is a delusion or not?
Many thanks
Baldrick
Many thanks
Baldrick
Userlevel 7
+35
I've been thinking a bit about this one, and going back to the OP in this thread, the question was about setting an undetected PUA to Monitor and the Block in order to use the rollback feature in order to uninstall the software.
With most PUAs - and most programs in general - it is the installer that makes the changes that you would want to roll back. In the case of most PUAs, the Process that would be set to Monitor and then block may not be making changes to the system, so there would not be anything to be rolled back.
-Dan
With most PUAs - and most programs in general - it is the installer that makes the changes that you would want to roll back. In the case of most PUAs, the Process that would be set to Monitor and then block may not be making changes to the system, so there would not be anything to be rolled back.
-Dan
Userlevel 7
+56
Yeppers I agree in the case of the OP it would not rollback because it's after the fact! @ can we get some info on the SafeStart Sandbox could a user run a program inside the sandbox to test programs and use it to remove all traces of the program like in the case of testing a program to see if you want to keep it or not? http://www.webroot.com/En_US/SecureAnywhere/PC/WSA_PC_Help.htm#C10_SystemControl/CH10c_UsingSafeStart.htm
Daniel ;)
Daniel ;)
Userlevel 7
Good question Daniel!
Again, I know some of the material we are discussing here is beyond the average user, but we do get questions on it and it would REALLY help the more advanced users here to be able to really fully understand it for our own use, but also in trying to answer questions on the Forum. We can answer much more accurately if we understand more fully.
Thanks you Dan for all the info so far!
Again, I know some of the material we are discussing here is beyond the average user, but we do get questions on it and it would REALLY help the more advanced users here to be able to really fully understand it for our own use, but also in trying to answer questions on the Forum. We can answer much more accurately if we understand more fully.
Thanks you Dan for all the info so far!
Yes, thank you. That clears it up. I didn't know about Manual Threat Removal also.@ wrote:
@ wrote:Setting to block does initiate a roll back. In a previous reply, I tested the rollback with a not well known application called Focus Writer (simple word type program). I made a doc on the desktop from Focus Writer, set the process to block, and my file dissappeared due to the rollback procedure.I guess my question is now:Journalling should start when an Unknown process enters memory and is Monitored.
When does the journaling start?
Ex: I install a PUA app. Its gets auto set to Monitor. Does journaling start after the installation or before?
If it is before, then the above test I did didn't work because the rollback procedure did not delete the installation files of Foucs Writer, only the changes the program did after installation.
Thanks!
Only the changes made by the monitored process will be journalled, so only those changes would be rolled back.
Using what you saw with Focus Writer as an example, journalling and rollback worked as would be expected. The Monitored file was the Focus Writer application file, which created the document, so the change of the created document was rolled back. Since that process did not create the installation files, those files would not be deleted.
If you wanted to remove the installation files, you would need to go to Manual Threat Removal, and select the installation file for Focus Writer. If the installer was monitored and journalled, the changes made by the installer would rolled back.
-Dan
Userlevel 7
Excellent additional info Baldrick.. Thank You!
Userlevel 7
Perfect.. thanks!@ wrote:
@ wrote:At that point the file would be determined Bad on the local machine, and the active process would be terminated. On a scan the cleanup/rollback process would start and any changes made by that file after it was set to monitor would be rolled back along with the generic cleanup routine.@ In the event that the user changes the status from Monitor to Block, what would happen at that point?
Thanks :)
-Dan
I was in grave error above on my first reply then... I did not think the rollback would be automatically triggered. Thank you VERY much for the clarifications
I know very well to NOT advise a general user to blindly go about blocking files... it is very dangerous if they happen to tag a Windows file... but at the same time I think it important that the more advanced users and members here have a GOOD understanding of it. I did not.....
I am not sure if I have a good understanding now, but at least it is a lot better than where I was yesterday at this time 🙂
Userlevel 7
Hi mar122999
I understand what you are asking which is essentailly what I paraphrased in my last post above. I still believe that a manually initiated change from 'Monitor' to 'Block' will not initiate the rollback function even if the 'Monitor' was set automatically. I believe that it is WSA itself that has to make that change for the rollback to be initiated...but we have no official answer so let's try to get it from someone else who may be able to advise...@ would you be able to advise on this point, please...it would be extremely useful either way to know what occurs in these circumstances/how the feature works or does not work in relation to the above scenario.
Regards, Baldrick
I understand what you are asking which is essentailly what I paraphrased in my last post above. I still believe that a manually initiated change from 'Monitor' to 'Block' will not initiate the rollback function even if the 'Monitor' was set automatically. I believe that it is WSA itself that has to make that change for the rollback to be initiated...but we have no official answer so let's try to get it from someone else who may be able to advise...
Regards, Baldrick
Userlevel 7
Thanks DanP! I THINK I am starting to understand it a lot better.... :)
Maybe this might be a good idea for 'ideas exchange': Allow users to rollback programs.
Sometimes contacting support can take time. I like having the ability to fix issues on my PC and clients without having to contact support. I understand there can be risks if a neccessary program is rolled back, but I'm sure WSA can come up with something to eleviate that issue (rules, ...etc).
Sometimes contacting support can take time. I like having the ability to fix issues on my PC and clients without having to contact support. I understand there can be risks if a neccessary program is rolled back, but I'm sure WSA can come up with something to eleviate that issue (rules, ...etc).
Another question. Does 'monitor' limit program access?
That videos shows that manually marking it blocked, then scan/delete rolls the software back.@ wrote:
Another thing about this if the PUA came as a Bundle the Rollback might remove to the point of the installation of the program. And can go along the lines of this short video: https://community.webroot.com/t5/Webroot-Education/What-Happens-if-Webroot-quot-Misses-quot-a-Virus/ta-p/10202 but it would be nice to hear from some Webroot Threat Researchers on this or even the Developer of that feature?@ will know who!
Thanks,
Daniel ;)
EDIT: see below
I just did a short test with a peice of odd software that I have in my collection (DVR program). WSA marked it for monitor. I then chose "block", scan/delete the file...but no rollback of the installation. I am guessing that Webroot will not rollback the program/folders/files/registry ...etc, but only the files created/changed AFTER installation of the program. I'm confused now lol.
UPDATE: I did another short test using a program called Focus Writer:
http://gottcode.org/focuswriter/
WSA marked as monitor, I open the program...create a doc and saved to desktop, blocked progam...scan/delete and during cleanup phase the file that I created dissapeared. So WSA doesn't delete the installed files of the program, only what it CREATES after installation. I guess ;P
So if you come across a computer with PUA/riskware/scareware ...etc., I'm glad that I can block, scan/delete, then uninstall the program to know that any changes done to the system (wallpaper change, homepage change, default search changed ...etc) would be rolled back (if the changes were done after installation...i'm not sure if changes during installation are rolled back). I guess a dev would have to answer when the journaling process starts.
UPDATE: I did another short test using a program called Focus Writer:
http://gottcode.org/focuswriter/
WSA marked as monitor, I open the program...create a doc and saved to desktop, blocked progam...scan/delete and during cleanup phase the file that I created dissapeared. So WSA doesn't delete the installed files of the program, only what it CREATES after installation. I guess ;P
So if you come across a computer with PUA/riskware/scareware ...etc., I'm glad that I can block, scan/delete, then uninstall the program to know that any changes done to the system (wallpaper change, homepage change, default search changed ...etc) would be rolled back (if the changes were done after installation...i'm not sure if changes during installation are rolled back). I guess a dev would have to answer when the journaling process starts.
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